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On JD on Rails June 8, 2006

Posted by Andrew in RoR.
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1. JD’s Weblog - June 8, 2006

[…] Andrew Peters makes his first ever post and pulls no punches […]

2. John-Daniel Trask - June 8, 2006

1. If you get the entire point of my post it was NOT to look at the things I thought were good about RoR – it was to discuss the things that I felt meant it didn’t quite cut the mustard WITH ME.

2. As I’ve commented, I’m not RoR guru but when I hear about some of the problems encountered when admins have been trying to scale up their servers and it doesn’t sound too easy. I’m surprised that you would argue the semantics of “scaling” when I had commented on my own post prior to your post that I meant both in terms of handling request and development scaling for large solutions. I’m more concerned about the latter because as you highlight, if you throw enough servers at something eventually it will go fast (In the Java V. Ruby example I highlighted in my post there was a 12x speed increase in using Java. Yeah, you could buy 12 times the amount of servers if your architecture was designed well enough but that’s not the point. It doesn’t scale in terms of speed).

I’ve usually found that when people are trying to defend something that is difficult to defend they often attack the question rather than answer it well.

3. Duh – somebody proficient in anything would most likely beat anyone who’s “average” at something else. I didn’t say TextMate was bad, I said I didn’t think it would help me manage large solutions.

4. Finally a valid point :) I was aware of freezing but also that it caught people off guard when the new version broke applications. Perhaps this is an open source issue more than RoR, but it would seem that the process of actually making a release to the public (not the process of creating the changes that form the release – I know how much you like stuff spelt out ;) seems poor. People all know about freezing now only because it burnt people by not knowing. It didn’t seem that many admins had sufficient warning of what the impact would be (I don’t use Typo and yes, it’s the admins fault partly, but I do remember for a while seeing considerable complaint about this issue).

Just to reiterate since you’ll probably respond as if I just killed your child – I do not know everything about RoR. I wanted to have a mature discussion about where I thought the short comings were and see what other people thought about those points. I might have missed a short coming, I might have been wrong about one. I’ll admit that – some of your points are good. I’m disappointed that you felt you had to take the tone and stance you did.

– JD

3. andrewpeters - June 9, 2006

JD, I’m sorry if you read something into the tone of my post. There was nothing personal in it and I was merely trying to argue my case convincingly. Besides, cut me some slack, I’m new to all this :-)

With respect to 3, please be more specific. Which features do you need to manage “large solutions”? I wasn’t specifically arguing for TextMate, but more suggesting that people seem to be achieving success at the moment using the available tools. Have you ever used TextMate or Komodo? If not, it seems a little unfair to diss them.

4. John-Daniel Trask - June 9, 2006

No worries Andrew, I’m still impressed that my post was enough to get you posting :)

I have only played briefly with TextMate and Komodo (and significantly more with RadRails). My major issues were with intelli-sense type functionality not being the best but I guess, in fairness, this often comes back to the duck typing that Ruby uses (as I think we’ve discussed at the RoR UG). While a purest probably hates intelli-sense I always find it useful when learning a language.

One thing you might be able to help answer is regarding how you would break up a large solution. Let’s assume in a .net world your solution has 25 project files in it – is there a way to nicely break up RoR sites into logically grouped chunks of functionality? Part of my manageability argument comes from the fact that I don’t see how you would manage hundreds or thousands of code files. Wouldn’t it just become a nightmare? What are your thoughts? :)

– JD

5. Sam Gentile - July 16, 2006

Thanks for listing my blog on your site. Can you switch your listing to my new blog at http://codebetter.com/blogs/sam.gentile/ ? Thanks!


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